Curse

Wesley Wyndam-Pryce · May 29, 2005, 11:48 PM // 23:48

i dont like the grind

Red Locust · May 29, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

UAS ladder won't affect PvE? You're kidding me, right? All PvPers would be on the UAS ladder, all the competition would be on the UAS ladder, and people on the normal ladder would realize that all the work put into their character would be for nothing since the normal ladder would be barren.

I like to work on my character, change skills on the go, and screw around with different items and builds. I'd hate to have to delete and recreate a new character every time I needed something different. And anyways, do you really need to have every single skill in the game to unlock? As someone pointed out, it takes less than a week to get a char to level 20 and outfitted with the best stuff and skills. Capturing a skill takes minutes, if you're so big on PvP you should be able to get a lot of sigils (especially now that they've increased drops) and buy any goddamn thing you desire. Just stick to your class, you don't need to have a monk, a warrior, a mesmer and an elementalist, all level 20 and in prime PvP shape.
But of course, no matter how much people have, they always want more, it's human nature. God, even counterstrike doesn't let you have all the weapons at the touch of a button.

DarrenJasper · May 30, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

I kind of blame ANet for all this fighting.

They built a game that was to be a PvP game from the ground up. In order to make things a little meatier they added a PvE aspect that was essentially nothing more than an extended training tutorial for the PvP part of the game. Then, they realized they could snag a whole bunch more players by presenting the PvE as a game of its own.

Now we've got a bunch of PvErs running around a PvP game with inflated egos, thinking (as usual) the game was made for them, which is hilarious but unfortunate as it leads to all these flame wars.

Loviatar · May 30, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Now we've got a bunch of PvErs running around a PvP game with inflated egos, thinking (as usual) the game was made for them, which is hilarious but unfortunate as it leads to all these flame wars.

actually when you consider the amount of content outside of the arenas you have to wonder if the pvp areas are not little sandboxes in a much larger playgrond

and if you are going to say that the endgame is pvp fine

i will have my fun and put it aside until the next chapter comes out and enjoy that

i already consider that i have gotten my fun dollars worth out of the game and i havent passed the academy area yet so the rest of the game is gravy for me

Caco-Cola · May 30, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Didn't read a single part of the thread.

You read one "OMG GIVE US UAS OMG OMG OMG" thread, you've read them all.

All I'm going to say is that the ONLY reason I don't like having UAS people segregated from the PvE people is the PvP community would just be split in half and dwindle and it just wouldn't be any fun IMO.

and that's the only reason. Other than that, if PvPers want instant, one hit wonder gratification than let them. No skin off my nose, I earned the skills I want.

AirOnG · May 30, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

UAS ladder won't affect PvE? You're kidding me, right? All PvPers would be on the UAS ladder, all the competition would be on the UAS ladder, and people on the normal ladder would realize that all the work put into their character would be for nothing since the normal ladder would be barren.

If the PvEers enjoy earning their gear and dedicated PvEers make up a significant portion of the community, wouldn't the PvE PvP ladder be perfectly fine? If this is not the case, that means many people dislike the PvE content compared to the PvP content and the current situation is limiting them. Maybe people want to compete in a completely level playing field.

Loviatar · May 30, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

one basic problem with a split ladder
1 for unlock all
1 for everyone else

is the need to have 2 of everything or to keep one of those out of the official rankings and HoH

example of this is as follows

*xxx guild has won the favor of the gods for america* (UAS)
*yyy guild has won the favor of the gods for korea* (REGULAR)

*?? lets /roll for gods favor??*

Zubrowka · May 30, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

I can't agree more. People here speak of PvE as though it's some price of admission that you have to work through. Personally, the cooperative PvE aspect of the game is why I'm playing. For me, doing quests aren't grind. If people don't want to do do them, why force them to. I don't want to team with them anyway. Grouping with people whose only motive is leveling is annoying.

Red Locust · May 30, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirOnG

If the PvEers enjoy earning their gear and dedicated PvEers make up a significant portion of the community, wouldn't the PvE PvP ladder be perfectly fine? If this is not the case, that means many people dislike the PvE content compared to the PvP content and the current situation is limiting them. Maybe people want to compete in a completely level playing field.

I don't think you understood me. It's not that there aren't enough PvEers to fill the PvE ladder, it's that everyone who finishes the campaign wants to go play with the big shots, where all the competition is at. And they won't be able to do that, since the PvPers will be on a separate ladder. So more and more people will start to ditch the PvE and play exclusively PvP, meaning the PvE quickly loses its appeal and falls in popularity. Pretty soon the PvE competitive play is dead and only "noobs" play in the PvE tombs. Nobody bothers to go through the missions, not enough people to fill PvE mission groups, RIP PvE.

AirOnG · May 30, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

I don't think you understood me. It's not that there aren't enough PvEers to fill the PvE ladder, it's that everyone who finishes the campaign wants to go play with the big shots, where all the competition is at. And they won't be able to do that, since the PvPers will be on a separate ladder.

Couldn't they just as easily compete with the big shots on the PvE PvP ladder? I'd think they'd want to compete with other like minded people who believe one should have to "earn" their gear. I do concur that the true competition will probably end up on the UAS system (since it's actually fair and caters more toward casual PvP characters who can't afford eons of time), but I'd think that the RP ladder would have a more casual type of competition.

Red Locust, if there aren't enough people playing PvE to support it because people prefer PvP far more than PvE and you believe a slippery slope will occur, then isn't that the fault of the way the PvE is set up currently? Many people really don't like being forced to play an aspect of the game they do not want to.

How would PvEers feel if they were forced to play PvP? The only time they are ever forced in the entire game is for around 5 minutes switching from presearing to postsearing and for celestial sigils (which they can simply buy and not have to pvp ever for it). PvPers are forced to play PvE for literally hundreds of hours to have a level playing field.

DismalClown · May 30, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Warning: The only post I read was the first one, sorry I have ADD and I’m dyslexic.

I don't have a problem with what are you asking for, but the games designers may. They may want the "grind" an integral part of the game for a reason.

If you want to know what their reason is, you are going to have to ask them, but if I were to guess I would say it's to make the game more than just an Unreal Tournament with spells (and less jumping).

Gerbill · May 30, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

from what I've read.. not sure if it's correct.. PvP characters don't get all the weapons etc..

and the ladders combined is a lot better seeing how PvE-ers eventually will want to fight big shots from the PvP part.

PvP-ers don't want to walk all the way trough the PvE part to unlock everything.

solutions to this:
- Unlock EVERYTHING for the PvP even a custom weapon creator or something.
- Have the option for characters to start at lvl 20 with a certain Gear in the PvE part and gain acces to all the main cities, basicly a huge boost to the PvE part, but still like everyone having to find the uber gear.

AirOnG · May 30, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubrowka

I can't agree more. People here speak of PvE as though it's some price of admission that you have to work through. Personally, the cooperative PvE aspect of the game is why I'm playing. For me, doing quests aren't grind. If people don't want to do do them, why force them to. I don't want to team with them anyway. Grouping with people whose only motive is leveling is annoying.

It's not the missions or leveling that are the problem. It's collecting runes and elite skills by going through the same area literally hundreds of times doing the exact same thing over and over.

Lazarous · May 30, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

I don't think you understood me. It's not that there aren't enough PvEers to fill the PvE ladder, it's that everyone who finishes the campaign wants to go play with the big shots, where all the competition is at. And they won't be able to do that, since the PvPers will be on a separate ladder. So more and more people will start to ditch the PvE and play exclusively PvP, meaning the PvE quickly loses its appeal and falls in popularity. Pretty soon the PvE competitive play is dead and only "noobs" play in the PvE tombs. Nobody bothers to go through the missions, not enough people to fill PvE mission groups, RIP PvE.

Ok, so follow that logic a bit further. What you're saying is that guild wars pve doesn't have any sort of compelling reason to play it after you finish the game.

If it can't stand on its own, why is being rammed down the throats of anyone who wants to play the portions of the game they like (pvp)? If you can't see yourself, as a person who likes pve, playing the game after you finish the missions - how do you think people who hate playing through pve more than once feel now?

This is like saying you need to beat the single player portion of doom 12 times before you can pick up the rocket launcher in multiplayer.

NiknudStunod · May 30, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I agree with the OP. I had more hours played during the last BWE weekend then I have had from release to present day. I have not only stopped playing completely but I have also stopped friends from purchasing the game because of this one issue. The guild I was part of in WoW has not bought the game because of my warning and that is over 35 people. Now this is a very small % when it comes to world wide sales but I am sure there are a lot of people put off by the grind issue.

Bamelin · May 30, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Well here is what Gaille had to say regarding UAS:

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...9&page=3&pp=25

(scroll about half way down the page)

Celes Tial · May 30, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Two seperate ladders would still make PvE feel pointless. And splitting the PvP community cant be the way to go.

Whats so wrong with -earning- and unlocking skills (including elites) through pure PvP play? I agree they should add this option, perhaps a skill tree to gradually unlock with fame points or something.

Celes Tial · May 30, 2005, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

This is like saying you need to beat the single player portion of doom 12 times before you can pick up the rocket launcher in multiplayer.

Thats why Doom is Doom, and GW is GW.

I dare say that the majority is content with the current system, but would like to see an option to unlock skills through pure PvP play added.

For every unhappy PvPer who quits, there is at least (IMHO, more) one player who appreciates the way things are, and would quit over an UAS button. It is impossible to satisfy everyone.

Bamelin · May 30, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

What reason would a PvE'er possibly have to quit over a UAS button (provided there was a dual ladder -- one UAS and one RPG)?

Lazarous · May 30, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

It makes them feel unloved